According to Zeno, why would it be impossible for you to show up to class on Wednesday? What must we presuppose in order to account for your presence in the classroom and why.
Let the absurd answers fly but the first person to give me Zeno's answer wins.
Have fun,
Dr. Layne
Fragment 12: "If place exists, where is it? For everything that exists is in a place. Therefore, place is in a place. This goes on to infinity. Therefore place does not exist." Therefore class does not exist. Therefore I might not be at class on Wednesday.
ReplyDeleteBefore coming to class on Wednesday, one must presuppose that the class exists in that particular room. According to Zeno, place does not exist because it is defined by the place that it occupies. Therefore, in Zeno's view, it is impossible for anyone to show up to class.
ReplyDeleteBrian Samuel used the dammed quote I had planned for this answer! Fragment 12 makes the most sense, though. According to Zeno's logic, everything is...everything...? If that makes sense (my interpretation anyway). Its almost like he is saying there is no physical reality and we're all just goop floating around.
ReplyDeleteIn reality, Zeno had too much time in his hands to come up with that. I exist, I am here, and if a bullet struck my head, I would die. I can go from building to building and people would notice me and I would feel the temperature outside or the rain from the clouds and hear the sorority girl screaming at her friend across the quad. Zeno amuses more than helps me with anything actually relevant in my life.
I will see you in class on Wednesday (or will I?)
I agree that Fragment 12 best describes why Zeno believes it would be impossible to be in class tomorrow. One must presume that the the classroom is a place. Yet, this place cannot exist because it must be in a place, and then that place must be in a place, and so forth and so on. In Zeno's view, there cannot be an infinity of places, and because of that reason place cannot exist.
ReplyDelete"For if, he says, everything is always at rest when it occupies a space equal to itself, and what is moving is always "in the row" the moving arrow is motionless."
ReplyDelete"If place exists, where is it? For everything that exists is in a place. Therefore, place is in a place. This goes on to infinity. Therefore place does not exist."
People are only assuming that Zeno says that place doesn't exist. This is true, but yet not. He believes that everything is one and nothing is finite. Therefore we do not exist, our classroom doesn't exist, we can't get there, there are no students studying philosophy at Loyola, and there are no people going around in our world.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Zeno, motion is impossible. In order for me to get to class, first I would have to walk halfway from my room to there, then halfway to that point to that point's halfway point, etc.
ReplyDeleteThere is no Wednesday.
ReplyDeleteBy suggesting there is a Wednesday, I am saying that there is time between now and Wednesday. There are many seconds in between now and Wednesday. Each of these seconds can be divided into more seconds, indefinitely. There is infinite time between now and Wednesday. The seconds between now and class are unlimited, therefore I can’t get to class on Wednesday because I can't get there in time. Too much infinity.
Hmmm well since Wednesday is not a physical place and it is only a point in time...time that we ourselves have created and believe to be when in fact there is no proof that there is a wednesday, im guessing there will be no class. So we're off Wednesday and Friday..according to that logic...
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone else that Fragment 12 is best. If everything that has a place and that place has a place then where is this place? This goes on and on. So if the classroom is a place that is a place then we do not know where it is or how to get to it then we can not show up on Wednesday.
ReplyDeleteFragment number twelve is the best one to describe why not to be in class today. He says how place exists in a place and it keeps going on and on and that makes place nonexistent. So if the classroom is a place within a place it does not exist which would make it pointless to come to class because theres no way to get to it.
ReplyDeleteI think a possible explanation (besides the fragment twelve everyone references) is Zeno's argument in fragment ten that time is composed of "nows." If "what is moving is always 'in the now,' then the moving arrow is motionless." Similarly, we are not truly moving to come to class if all motion (which happens in the 'now') is actually motionless.
ReplyDeleteZeno makes a few arguments that explain his logic as to why it impossible to show up to class on Wednesday.
ReplyDelete1.Everything is one, There is no many, There are no parts; so my house, my car, the class are all one thing. This means that I am in all places all at once. (Fragment 4…nor will there be one part, of any such part, not related to another).
2.There is no motion; so moving from one place to another is impossible (Fragment 6, there is no motion because that which is moving must reach the mid-point before the end.) This statement assumes that the mid-point and the end are two separate, divisible points.
3.Time and Length are continuous; (Fragment 8, it is impossible to come into contract with things infinite in quantity in finite time, but is possible to do so with things that are infinite in division). To me, this means that 1230 will never come and I can’t travel in length (distance) because it is never-ending.
4.Ever thing is present. (Fragment 11, what is moving is always in the now, the moving arrow is motionless).
We must presuppose that things are separable and that there is a past tense in order to account for our presence in the classroom on Wednesday and for Zeno this is impossible because these consequences are absurd for it results in contradictions.
Time, space, distance, being; everything is one and there is no such thing as many.
ReplyDeleteokay... so it seems everyone has used this quote
ReplyDelete"If place exists, where is it? For everything that exists is in a place. Therefore, place is in a place. This goes on to infinity. Therefore place does not exist."
If class doesn't really exist why would I be in class??
I would have to agree that Fragment number 12 is the best fragment to describe why one would not be in class today. "If place exists, where is it for? For everything that exists is in a place. Therefore, Place is in a place. This goes on to infinity. Therefore, place does not exist" Basically if the classroom is a place inside another place it does not exist.
ReplyDeleteZeno talks about the mind and how it it unlimited. Unless my mind is made up or understands that I must go to class on Wednesday (if there is such thing as a Wednesday), at 12:30 in class room 303 of Loyola's music/mass comm building. I must first come to grips with the understanding that I must go to class and where this "class" exists.
ReplyDeleteAs far as participation goes, Zeno states in fragment 13, that our mind is alone by itself unless mixed with something else, and when done so it would have a share of all things. This fragment, to me, almost describes philosophy. In order to have this "love or wisdom", we must look around for different views on the things of life. In order to do that you must argue these issues with others who think differently than you do. This is why participation in class is important in philosophy. We must all go off each others understanding in order that we may have a better understanding and broader view on the issues of life.
According to Zeno it would be impossible for me to show up to class on Wednesday because he believes that there is no such thing as a place. In order for me to be in that classroom it would have to exists, but if a place cannot exists then the classroom, which is considered a place doesn’t exists. A place doesn’t exists because a place only exists in a place. If a place is something it’s another place in a bigger place. If this new place is something that exists then it would also have to be in another place. This can continue on forever, therefore it can’t exist. He also argues that there are many things. If there are many things then they have to be within a place but place doesn’t exists so there can’t be many things if there is no place for these things. (Fragment 12 and 5)
ReplyDeleteI agree with most on this one that fragment 12 best explains why it would be impossible to show up to class. We must assume that the class exists in a place and that this place is a place. Because this pattern continues on to infinity, this place does not exist. If it indeed does not exist, it is impossible for me or anyone else in that matter to show up to class. The only other option is dying before class starts.
ReplyDeleteWell, we know that class as something in existence, is in a place and since place is in a place it cancels itself out and becomes nonexistent.
ReplyDeleteSo... I might not be a class because then I would be nonexistent.
Zeno oddly enough does not believe in motion. Therefore how can I go to class without moving.
ReplyDeleteWithout motion I am stuck in one place hindering me from going to glass on Wednesday. Also, according to Zeno places are nonexistent. So even I if I was in class, which is a place,I would be in a nonexistent void.
According to Zeno it would be impossible for me to show up to class today because there is no place, a classroom, for me to go to. For Zeno the classroom would be a place and for Zeno places do not exist. The ‘idea’ of the classroom exists but the actual classroom does not exist. We must presuppose that the class is a place and I can get there. If I am like the arrow will I go to the class or will the class come to Me?
ReplyDeleteWell, the quote that expressed why I wouldn't come to class on Wednesday would be:
ReplyDelete"If place exists, where is it? For everything that exists is in a place. Therefore, place is in a place. This goes on to infinity. Therefore place does not exist."
The place in which the class is held according to Zeno does not exist. So it would be kinda pointless for me to go to a place that does not exist.
In Fragment 12, "If place exists, where is it? For everything that exists is in a place. Therefore, place is in a place. This goes on to infinity. Therefore place does not exist." If this fragment is true, the classroom in effect, does not exist. Because the physical place of the classroom does not exist according to Zeno, it would be impossible to make it to class today.
ReplyDeleteFragment 12 absolutely defines Zeno's answer to this question. According to Zeno, there is no time, motion, or place. Without those three things it is impossible for us/I to show up to class on Wednesday. Zeno is basically saying that there is no place for us to attend class because place does not exist, and place does not exist because a place is in a place is in a place and so on. Never ending. In addition, without motion, it is impossible for me to go to class.
ReplyDeleteFragment 12: "If place exists, where is it? For everything that exists is in a place. Therefore, place is in a place. This goes on to infinity. Therefore place does not exist." Therefore class does not exist.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone that this is the best example Zeno uses to support his argument. But i still dont fully agree with the argument itself. It seems to be too abstract, he talks as if i dont have a physical body that will be present in a classroom which physically has four walls. If he is focusing on our being or our pyche then it could make sense because although my body could be in the classroom, my mind could be somewhere else (i.e. thinking about my girlfriend, thinking about the weekend, not paying attention to what's going on in class). But If this isnt the case, I dont see how Zeno's argument (although fragment 12 explains it perfectly) can explain why it would be impossible (strong word) for me to show up to class on Wednesday. The argument presupposes that place is a place or that place exists in a place, which i think is true. But that place needs more definition than being merely called a place: what kind of place is it? Without specifications the argument seems like its missing something significant.
If I am already in all places at once and a part of all things at once, then "Wednesday" and "the classroom" are arbitrary words. It is impossible for me to pinpoint a place and time; therefore, it is impossible for me to be there.
ReplyDeleteWednesday itself is not a place, but simple something man has created to distinguish a day from another. Even the idea of a day is made up by man. Since Wednesday's classroom is a place, it would not exist for Zeno. Wednesday would exist more for him since it is simply an idea. We could go to the idea of a classroom in the knowledge we learn or the books we read.
ReplyDeleteIn passage 12, Zeno poses the question of "If a place exists, where is it?" He goes on to say that because everything exists in a place, place does not exist. This is so because a place is in a place. According to this logic then, the classroom is something in a place, and infinitely is there. Therefore the classroom itself is not there.
ReplyDeleteI answered the wrong question, I thought the question was, what is Zeno's perspective, so that is what I am posting.I would have to think further to answer this question.
ReplyDeleteZeno branched off of the views of Parmenides, by challenging the possibility of referring to an indefinite thing. Not eliminating, a reference to something that we presuppose is a definite subject/object without specifying its identity, but sometimes, Zeno suggested, we seem to want to talk about something which is in itself indefinite. This happens when space is considered, while inquiring how far space extends. Zeno also pondered on how small something could be, and posed that the most minuscule things ultimately are definite in size, for instance an atom that cannot be further divided, for it cannot be indefinitely small.
Zeno also seemingly attacked the views of the Atomists, requesting to know the location of a place (whether empty or full). This approach is deemed perceptive, considering it emphasizes that place and space are not things in the usual sense. This presents the idea that space is a system of relations among things, implying that each “thing” defines a “place”, which would cancel the possibility of attributing such concept to NO-thing, meaning no empty place could be allocated to separate atoms.
The response presented is characteristic to a “receptacle” for things, but Zeno inquires where this receptacle is. Zeno also contested against motion, that the belief that something is moving somehow involves its being somewhere and not being there, simultaneously. So his question is when is it that the moving object moves. An object cannot be in several places at the same instant. If an object is only in motion in a period of time, then it must be somewhere in each segment of that time, and therefore constantly changing locations over time. Therefore is either assumed that an object/subject is defined by a small (definite) length of time, so it cannot be in several places at once, for it is indivisible (by earlier or later parts), meaning that it never moves, stays in one place, and then in another. But maintaining that it not pass through the intermediate places. The alternative notion claims an indefinitely small unit of time, equivalent to no time at all, just as a point is no space at all.
Mary Mena