Today we discussed the origin of philosophy from wonder. I argued that philosophy is not a mere replacement for a primitive or naive form of thinking but rather, philosophy is the basis for all forms of thinking whether it appears in the guise of mythological or creative works of literature or, more commonly, the philosophical treatise. I ultimately argued that anyone who ever questions or "wonders," to use the words of Aristotle, approaches the door to philosophy. Thus questioning the origin of philosophy is not a matter of determining the exact day and time that philosophy/rational thinking appeared. Rather the origin of philosophy is something intimate to each of us as human/rational animals. Consequently when we question the historical origin of philosophy in such thinkers like Thales, i.e. when we question who the "first" philosopher is and why he thought the way he thought, we are still investigating how philosophy may arise in each of us rather than just collecting or amassing historical information. Keeping this in mind then, I want you now to read over and analyze the surviving fragments of Thales, Anaximander and Anaximenes. Tell me primarily what "worldview" these men share and why this may earn them the title of the "first" philosophers. Consider also whether their work is any more "rational" than say the mythology that we were presented with in Homer, Aeschylus or Euripides.
See you Wednesday.
Cheers,
Dr. Layne
Thales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes all postulate their own ideas about the origin and composition of the universe. Instead of keeping their questions to themselves, they discussed their ideas with other thinkers of the time who in turn published these new theories. Because these men have the oldest written records of their ideas, perhaps this is the reason that they are considered to be the "first" philosophers.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the text, one can conclude that the worldview these men share are all based upon nature and what exactly was the start of the universe. Each one found that some natural element was the foundation for what we know as the world today. Thales thought the world was born from water, Anaximander thought motion of hot(fire) and cold(mist), and Anaximenes thought aer(air). Since their philosophy deals with the "beginning" and were the first to question it, I would say this is why they are considered to be the first philosophers though I would not consider their work more rational than the other readings. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and own way of thinking, so no one person is particularly wrong.
ReplyDeleteThales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes obviously all share thoughts that are very primitive. When entering adulthood these are thoughts that men have. What are things made of? What elements make up objects; how does the sun, moon, water and air effect us? These men threw out the ideas while later philosophers built upon on those ideas making the foundation of discovery and science.
ReplyDeleteAll three of the "first" philosophers attempted to answer the same universal questions: where does the earth come from? Their answers seem simplistic. such as everything being different combination of water, fire, air and earth,(Cue the Captain Planet jokes) but provided a then-logical explanation and structure for the world's origins
ReplyDeleteOf course with modern technology we can obviously see that these 's views are so inaccurate, and that even simple objects such as an amoeba are made up of different combinations of elements.
All three believe in monism, a reduction in complexities to a single element. Thales, Anaximes, and Anaximander tried to figure out what was the underlying stuff of the universe. Thales believed everything originated from water. Anaximes postulated all things originated from air. Anaximander proposed something different from the two philosophers; he believed an undefined, unlimited substance without qualities to be the source of the world around us. These three philosophers were before Socrates and were most likely called the “first philosophers” because they were in fact the first to publically philosophize and investigate nature.
ReplyDeleteThales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes, the worlds "first philosophers," all went beyond their contemporaries in expanding their realm of thinking. All three not only pondered the origins of the earth, but also applied their conclusions to human origins and experience. Their common worldview was that of material monism: that the world, as part of the universe, originated as a single substance that condensed or expanded to form all things. Although the three philosophers had separate theories as to what the single substance was, their shared belief in material monism set them apart from other men of their time. They not only came to a conclusion regarding the formation of the earth, but also applied their theory to the formation of human forms. By postulating that human forms resulted from a common substance, these three philosophers also formed a theory regarding the origins of human thought, thereby elevating their thinking from simple wonderings about the earth to more complex questions about the origin of human forms and thought.
ReplyDeleteThales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes are thought to be the first philosophers because they each tried to rationalize rather than rely on Greek myths to explain life’s happenings. They each changed the face of the world because they stirred up the need to understand life and its existence in human beings. Thales thought that life evolved from water, Anaximander argued it started from hot and cold, and Anaximenes thought that it began from air. I don’t agree with any of these assertions but the principle of needing to prove or disprove the origin of life is the key factor that makes these guys great. They are rightly called the first philosophers because of their autonomy. They actively pursued truth rather than passively accepting myth. They laid the foundation for Aristotle, Socrates, Machavelli, St. Augustine and many other great philosophers. It is because of their inquisitiveness that we, as a people, have been able to make such scientific and technological progress. And yes the concepts of Thales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes are easier on the brain than Homer—probably because of the relate-ability factor.
ReplyDeleteThe "first" philosophers are different in their worldviews because they believe that the world isn't created and made up by gods. Instead, they try to find a natural explanation for the way things are by looking at the world around them and basing their theories on that. They do not assume the world has a religious origin or that the way things are is a result of fickle gods that we cannot fathom--instead, the world is rational and can be rationalized.
ReplyDeleteThe first philosophers generally share some basic ideas (caveman era if you will) about the existence of the world, how it came about, as well as ideas on how the world functions. Thales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes share the worldviews of rationale ideas and thinking of how the world is what it is as they used science versus religion and ventured away from the Gods and mythology as they formed their ideas based on what they perceived things to be.
ReplyDeleteAll three philosophers Thales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes had the worldview of questioning the world around by using scientific means such as mathematics. These men are commonly labeled as the first philosophers because they were the first Greek philosophers in recorded history to think scientifically. This is different from Homer’s mythological universe in which everything is explained by fabled stories rather than fact.
ReplyDeleteThe first philosophers can be deemed the first because they thought and wondered about the very basics of origins and make-up of the cosmos. The first question one must ask before why is what. This is why these philosophers are the first because they asked the initial questions of what is this universe composed of?
ReplyDeleteThey built upon each others' material monism philosophies. Anaximander built upon Thales idea that all of nature and the cosmos comes from one entity. Anaximander left aside Thale's concrete idea of water and moved on to a indefinite substance as the basis for the cosmos. Anaximenes then took this idea and proposed aer, another indefinite substance, but included more clarity of how aer transformed into everything else.
Thales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes can be considered philosophers because they thought a great deal about the matter of which the universe was created and sustained. The three have different views about what the universe is made up of, but they all seem to have evidence as to what their reasoning is.
ReplyDeleteThese three discuss a great deal about the origin of the universe, and though it is primitive, the fact that they were thinking and questing and coming up with answers that suited them makes them the "first" philosophers. They recognized the elements that were around them, and tried to give answers to why and how those elements were.
Thales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes all believed that there is one thing that is the source of all other things (material monism). They disagreed, however, on what this thing was. Thales thought it to be water because everything that lives is moist at some point. Anaximander believed this thing could not be something as definite as water, but was unsure of what it was exactly. He just knew whatever it was, it was not definite. Anaximenes went on to say that this thing is "aer," which is said to be different thatn "air" as we know it. Each of these men can be considered a philosopher because he had a question about the world and its origins, sought to answer that question through studies and experiments, and developed theories as to how he believed the world came to be and still is.
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ReplyDeleteThales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes all have their own ideas of what the world is made of. People of this time just thought that the god's created everything. No one when further to find out what all of this matter consisted of. Thales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes wanted to learn the origin of man in regard to the matter that makes us. They postulated that water, indefinite matter, or air made up the world and humans. They were partial correct on their own. Water and air are needed for life and indefinite matter could be interpreted as atoms. These ideas were radical at their conception.
ReplyDeletethey all share the worldview of the cosmos and how everything originated from one element, whether it be water or air (aer) which represents a god or the gods since deities are everywhere and indefinite. they also share the belief that although everything is produced from element, that element merely changes in form to create so many different elements of life such as animals, plants, clouds, ect.
ReplyDeleteAnaximander, Thales, and Anaximenes try to talk about how the universe was created. They have similar ideas but with some differences. Thales believes water is what helped to create the universe. Anaximenes believes it is aer and Anaximander believed it was both hot and cold. Their worldviews consists of some sort of element being responsible for the universes creation which they called material monism. This is the belief that one thing gave birth to everything else. This was the basis for their theories.
ReplyDeleteThe first philosophers, Thales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes, can be labeled as so because of their shared interest in the creation of the universe. All three philosophers have opinions as to how the universe and all that goes along with it (ie. the stars, clouds, the moon, rain, snow, etc.) came to be. The first philosphers all believe in monism but have different points of view about how the universe came into existence. Thales believes that all things are principles in the form of matter while Anaximinder believes that not elements, but some other nature which is indefinite is the first principle. Anaximenes develops his own underlying reality called "aer" which is indefinite enough to produce other things in the cosmos but is not as vague as Anaximander's boundless concept. These philosophers are considered the first because they were the first to question the origins of the world and all of it's elements.
ReplyDelete"Just as our soul, being air, holds us together and controls us, so do breath and air surround the whole cosmos."- Anaximenes
ReplyDeleteParadoxically, the most obvious facet of ancient Greece that we are challenged to recreate is also the most insubstantial: what the Milesians call a single stuff. We can talk about the beginning of philosophy but we can't forget what we know about molecules, atoms, quarks, even string theory; science permeates our culture. We are entering a psychological world in which we are all outsiders.One might think that is is a simple matter to understand how these philosophers worked out matter, but people who hold beliefs foreign to our own do not often act the way we think they should.
The world view that the "first philosophers" had in common is that a natural element was the reason for the creation of the universe. Therefore, the Greek worldview of the time would be that the universe started with the earth, rather than the sun or an outside deity. However, the philosophers we read are not the first people to philosophize. Asking questions about he origin of the universe and certain ultimate questions about humanity is a part of our very nature. Intellectual beings have been wondering about such questions since the day our brains developed enough to do so.
ReplyDeleteAs for their cosmologies being more "rational" than mythology, I disagree. Mythology to me is a completely rational solution to explaining the unobtainable questions humans ask themselves. Searching for resolution is a rational thing to do, and filling in the gaps with myth is equally rational.
Anaximander, Thales, and Anaximenes all discuss a material monism. That is, they all believed the universe came to be from some single material that formed into many different things. Water, some boundless material, and what Anaximenes calls 'aer' are all propositions of what this cosmic stuff could be. No one before them really discussed one universal element that could have given rise to everything we see around us.
ReplyDeleteThales, Anaximander and Anaximenes all have different ideas about what the universe was created from. But they all agree upon the same theory of material monism, which is the theory that the universe was definitely created from something. By forming this thought, these three men can be considered the first philosophers because they thought the universe was created by something other then a God.
ReplyDeleteAll three philosophers believed that some type of natural force was responsible for the formation of the earth. These philosophers no longer took into account the mythological stories surrounding the development of the earth. This is why they were considered the first philosophers because they completely moved away from myths and looked for more concrete evidence, such as conducting investigations using math and science.
ReplyDeleteThey seem to agree that the world is made up of one element. They hold cosmology and epistemology in high regard relating back to the makeup of the world as one single element that makes up all other living and non-living things. This may grant them the title of the "first philosophers" because their questioning was expressively written down and explored wonders of what the world was made up of at a early point in philosophical terms. While mankind has always been questioning, these philosophers' thoughts and feelings were taken down into history and numerously related to by other Greek greats such as Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle as a kind-of starting point for philosophy. This work is more "rational" because instead of philosophizing through literature, they outrightly question the makeup of all being.
ReplyDeleteAll three of the "First Philosophers" had very intriguing ideas. Their ideas were very different from other theories of their time--which is probably why these men are considered the "First Philosophers".
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Thales' idea that everything is water is very unique. Since majority of the things on earth need water to live, his idea makes sense to me.
Anaximander stated that the earth's shape "is curved, round, like a stone column. We walk on one of the surfaces and the other one is set opposite."
The third "First Philosopher", Anaximenes, declared that "air is a god...and is...infinite and always in motion."
These three early philosophers really got everyone else thinking about topics that they probably never would have thought of thinking about--which is why we are reading about these individuals today.
The worldview that Thales, Anaximander and Anaximenes share is an idea on how the universe and the cosmos started. They believed the world was created by elements and not by gods. These three men started to look at the world more scientifically and with reason. They used the technology that they had to answer and come up with conclusions on how this world was formed. They earn the title of first philosopher because they started to try to answer lives question with rational thought and with real reason. Their reasoning was a little off, but that only showing the technology and ideas they had in 600 B.C. Their works I feel would be considered more rational then the mythology that we have been reading because it is taking god out of the equation and trying to answer these questions with facts.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that the worldview Thales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes held was that the world was created naturally, but human beings are here to maintain it. If human beings have no concern for nature, then the world will cease to exist. There needs to be respect for the natural world so people can continue to live safely in it. This is similar to the way in which the world is viewed today. There is a question of what will last and what will not last in different places. Human beings must take responsibility of their actions towards nature, good or bad, in order to continue to be able to enjoy it. Thus these philosophers were seen then as the "first philosophers" because people were not used to thinking about the world in this way. People believed maybe that the earth would always be there, regardless of their actions towards it.
ReplyDeleteThales, Anaximander and naximenes all agreed that the world began from one single point that changed the become the universe as it is today i.e. "material monoism". Thales' idea was that everything is made up of water. Anaximander stated that the original material of the world was something boundless or indefinite. Anaximenes states that air is the original material. They were called the first philosophers because of the idea of monoism. The fact that they tried to attribute the creation of the universe to one point which is more nature based was a breakthrough because previous to that it was more polyism which was God based i.e. polytheism.
ReplyDeleteThales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes all had a natural curiosity about the natural world. They pondered questions of origin, material, and why, when others were not. They were, in true form, pioneers.
ReplyDeleteWhile some may argue these are simple or primal ideas, I would argue that based on the time these thoughts took place, these men were far ahead of their time. If we are to conclude these men are primitive, then the same should be said for Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, since they haven't met our holier-than-thou, 2010 expected knowledge of the world.
The Milesians attempting to explain the world in a more tactile way. While no one may ever legitimately see a god or be able to prove their existence they strove to explain the world around them based on evidence. This of course gave way to rationality and the practice of theoretical discussion, examining and anticipating the elements of reality. While their philosophy seems to deal more with physical science and religion indirectly, the approach that their theory's took provoke the mind to perhaps seek other explanation and to look for more rational and therefore productive ways of living (in that you can anticipate life based on reality, not the whims of the gods). It's these kinds of thinkers that laid the ground work for the sciences, even if their findings were forgotten, which is unfortunate because in many ways were far more correct in their interpretations of reality than many of the later European attempts to explore science and understand the nature of the cosmos.
ReplyDeleteThe world view that all three shared was the view that something cosmic had a hand in creating the world, the universe, everything. Each had their own spin to it, but each had an explanation as to how the world as they know it came about. I'm sure these men weren't the first to question the existence of everything, but they were the first to pass along their ideas, and probably presented the best explanation during their time.
ReplyDeleteThales, Anaximander, and Anaximenes seem to share similar worldviews, in that they all posit that time is linear, having begun with some sort of either indeterminate or definite element and progressed since. They all also posit that the world is stationary, and that everything in the world is composed of the same elements that compose humans. These similarities may have earned them the title of the "first philosophers" because they all attempted to identify universal factors that qualify humans as being just as alive and aware as the world around them.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that the first philosophers all came to the conclusion that a similar kind of "element" that the world is based upon. that element be it water, air or some kind of mist. it is a sort of "monotheistic" view of an element that though never physically changes, can adopt different properties in order to create the world in which we live. I think in a way this is a bit more rational than the previous ways of thinking because it does deal with actual tangible mediums such as water. This way of thinking is actually addressing the idea of creation in a way that transcends to the physical world rather than using gods and goddesses as an excuse for how the world exists
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