Wednesday, October 6, 2010

The Atomists

First and primarily tell me what the ethical doctrine of Democritus is and how is it connected to his metaphysics? Second, what might be the dangers of such a theory with regards to the relationship between pleasure and reason?

Cheers,
Dr. Layne

P.S. To all who need to discuss your pop quiz grade, please just come by my office tomorrow. I follow the tenet that everyone can do well in my class regardless of one's beginnings. So come by and find out how I can help you do better next time.

32 comments:

  1. This was a little difficult for me to wrap my head around, but this is my attempt! For Democritus, the best way for one to behave is through accepting only things that are beneficial and acting through moderation. This excludes excess in material pleasures, because that can lead to instability in one’s soul. Because Democritus believed in the intelligible, this is why he felt that proportion was important. If proportion and moderation were not used, the result would be only “short-term pleasures” and “devoid of ‘genuine being.’” I feel that a danger of this theory is the possibility of too much restraint from “pleasures from the belly,” and reason could become unbalanced towards the way of becoming insufficient.

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  2. According to Democritus' theory, atoms cannot be destroyed, cut, or split. Also involves the coming together and separating of atoms. Basically they cannot be destroyed, but this idea completely disregards the idea of everything being tired together in sense. This theory in regards to the relationship between pleasure and reason seem insufficient. I see it as if he wants people to accept things that are tangible and constant. Therefore reason would be the thing to strive for, especially since he was an intellectual. In regards to pleasure, for the most part it isn’t constant and does not last long. He believes that it is best for people to gain happiness through non-mortal things and not to simply given to the pleasures of the flesh.

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  3. Democritus believes that the good is something internal rather than external. The good is the internal state of “cheerfulness” which is achieved through moderation and avoidance of material pleasures. Democritus focuses on bettering the soul and achieving this by choosing paths to long-lived pleasures. I believe a person could become less happy by not being able to act freely and always having to analyze their next move.

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  4. Wow, this is a very complicated reading but i think (hope) i got the jist of it. His ethical doctrine encompasses and focuses on reason. He believes that not only does everything happen for a reason, but also that everything has some direct or underlying purpose. Its connected to metaphysics because althouagh he agrees that things are in motion, he questions why they are in motion, making every action seem extremely significant.the danger between pleasure and reason is that he does not give clear guidelines for it. for example, he says to accept nothing ppleasant unless its beneficial, but then he says that different people find different things pleasant. there is not a strong connection between the two statements.

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  5. Because Democritus believed that atoms are everything and that these atoms are never completely joined together but are just really close, there can not be a "good" because the atoms of what make "good" are also what make up "not good;" there is simply a change in either rhythm, arrangement, and/or position that makes it appear to be either "good" or "not good." What this seems to mean is that all "things" are subject to personal perception and interpretation. What appears to be a "good" to you can also appear to be a "not good" to me because we are seeing the atoms of it from two different perspectives. This can be dangerous because if no two people can ever see one "thing" as the same, there could be no ethics to govern us all; no one would agree on what is "good" and what is "not good." There will always be conflict and chaos.

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  7. So I tried to understand the reading to the best of my abilities, but I found it quite hard to figure out. Democritus believed that everything happened for a reason and that all the atoms were in contact, as in his way of stating that there is a space between all atoms called the void which has nothing in it. Because the atoms are connected in such a way, there is always some reason behind anything that happens in the reality. If someone sees something as good then accept it because he believes that if the thing is good and beneficial for one person then yay for that one, but if another person sees that thing and considers it bad and not beneficial then that is the way that person perceived the thing. It is all about the perseption of the people.

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  8. Democritus renounced the reflections of Anaxagoras (mind) and Empedocles (harmony and discord), by implementing consistent mechanistic principles that didn’t demand any supernatural intervention ( of course I do not agree with this statement).He upheld that all things were made up of of atoms; atoms were tiny particles, obscure to the senses, composed of exactly the same matter but vary in shape, weight, and size. They were didn’t have origin, were indivisible, and indestructible. Democritus maintained that atoms were constantly in motion, from this foundation he went on to justify the creation of worlds. Claiming that the “whirling motion caused by the falling of atoms resulted in aggregations..the heavier atoms forming the earth and the lighter ones the heavenly bodies”. He taught that what the senses recognize as quality is simply the aftermath of a particular quantitative distribution of atoms. Sense perception utterly produces skewed knowledge, solely informing how things impact us; thought alone can capture the nature of things. Democritus' ethics were rather hedonistic, teaching that the actual conclusion of life is happiness achieved through inner tranquility.


    Analyses of fragments suggest that Democritus was committed to a kind of enlightened hedonism, in which the good was thought to to be an internal state of mind rather than something external. The good is identified in several different ways, one being euthymia or cheerfulness.. Some fragments advise moderation and caution in one's pursuit of pleasures make them beneficial; others lean on the need become free from reliance on fortune by moderating desire. I personally do not see danger in restraint and self control (this may be due to the fact that I am a conservative and a Christian) even though he spoke as a result of intellectual inspiration rather than spiritual complemented with intellect.But I believe discipline, and discernment to make decisions is the only way to live, liberal thinking and acting in the past has only brought me trouble, however I may be misunderstanding the question or even the readings. Other passages concentrate on the human ability incorporate nature through teaching and art, branching from a notion of balance and moderation which therefore suggests that ethics is understood as a craft of tending to the soul just as medicine is used for the care of the body .

    Mary Mena

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  9. Democritus believes there are only two types of judgment: one that is legitimate and one that is "bastard." This "bastard" judgment are the judgments made from our senses. It is only when we are completely removed from our sensory reality that we can judge what is true. Our opinions are made of atoms of the soul.

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  10. I agree with Tonja (above). Atoms are uncuttable so they will always be individual “things” and never be one. The placement of these atoms and how they move around in the void effect how we live and play a big role on fate.

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  11. Democritus claims that nothing happens at random but all things as a result of a reason and by necessity. In this case his statement relates to metaphysics in that all things in the universe, and even the universe itself, were created for a necessary reason and not out of coinedence. In reagards to pleasure and reason this type of doctrine might be dangerous in that people might believe they should act soley for their own pleasures because it is rational. This would led to less unity in the world going against previous philosophies.

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  12. Because everything is made of atoms and only vary in size, shape and weight, what we sense is obviously a certain variation of atoms. This sense is obviously skewed- atoms will never touch each other but come very close.

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  13. Democritus believed that the atom was the basic building block of everything. Also, the atom could not be cut, destroyed, or touch each other. Democritus preached that happiness would not be fulfilled by enjoying mortal pleasures. Moderation with food and other physical pleasure was the key to achieve happiness. Gaining happiness through immortal means was far more important to Democritus than mortal pleasures.

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  14. Democritus feels that things can be labeled into two areas of the way things are or judging things which can either be is correct/true/rational or things that we perceive from our own experiences or six senses. Because we are biased and make many decisions based on our own senses/ how we feel and perceive things to be, these judgments are considered invalid and the only judgments that count are the ones that are based not on our senses which are legitimate.

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  15. It is rational to perceive that all matter is made up of atoms. However, because as humans we are subjective, these perceptions cannot be trusted exactly.

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  16. I agree with many of the posts that my fellow classmates made earlier. What comes to mind for me is Democritus' belief that the "nature of the eternal things is small beings unlimited in multitude (p.66). This makes me the think about our class discussion on Wednesday about how two is more important than one because it is in the two that we see the one. With that said, atoms are uncuttable and cannot be divided or split. Since there is a believed infinite amount of amounts, it is evident that they are genuine beings. However, Democritus also say that in reality, we know nothing about anything because each person perceives each situation different. In regards to pleasure and reason, Democritus believes that nothing happens on a whim, everything is the cause of something, whether reason or necessity.

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  17. Democritus believes that atoms are the origin of everything and that they are never touch but just stay close to each other. This is connected through his metaphysics that atoms merging and separating help to create the world. The dangers of his ideas about pleasure and reason because it gives the impression that a person can do anything they find pleasant. A person can't just do whatever they want that makes them happy because it can cause more harm than good depending on what it is.

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  18. Democritus poses that "there are two kinds of judgment, one legitimate and the other bastard"(22). He goes on to say that sight, hearing, taste, smell, and touch are all bastard judgments. Basically I think he is deriding the 5 senses and claiming that good judgment cannot be made through them; "In reality we know nothing about anything"(25).

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  19. The ethical doctrine of Democritus is that everything happens for a reason and that all aspects of life are covered by his atomic theory. His metaphysics is that everything is made up of atoms that are infinite, uniform, and unchangeable, and these atoms move, come together and separate in the void, which is responsible for everything in the world. Atoms are all shapes and sizes but are still equal because “what is, is no more than what is not”. Birth and death are just recognized as a change in arrangement of atoms. Atoms cling to each other until more powerful necessity comes along and scatters them from each other. Nature runs its course with unlimited necessity to keep moving on in existence. Democritus believes that nothing is random and everything has a reason. The dangers of this theory on the relationship between pleasure and reason is that one can reason pleasure in excess, for example, “pleasures from the belly, exceeding the right time for food, drink, and sex—have short lived pleasures--only for as long as they eat or drink—but many pains,” because the focus is on “pleasure from mortal things.”

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  20. Democritus's belief that everything is made up of atoms that are constantly moving and never join means that the material world comes from an individual's perception of these atoms. This leads to the idea that the good is only a perception as well.

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  21. Democritus's central ethical doctrine is not to find pleasures in mortal things. This is because mortal things are inherently temporary and will ultimately leave your presence. This new absence will create a void, leaving nothing where thing once was. This void will bring to the gluttonous individual much lasting pain. Therefore, if one wants to feel fulfilled s/he ought not overindulge in bodily pleasures. This comes directly from his metaphysics, because Democritus saw a thing/void dichotomy that governed existence, and he applied it to humanity's quest for happiness.

    Regarding pleasure and reason, I reasonably seek pleasure. It feels good. Democritus thus cautions us to recognize the lasting effects of our pleasure-seeking, instead of being caught up in the joys of guzzling wine and gorging on the flesh of animals, for there will be a tomorrow.

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  22. Democritus ethical doctrine is his ideas of atomies are made up of the same elements but to have different elements, the elements are more empty and full. Democritus called this idea ‘what is’ and ‘what is not’. The idea of ‘what is’ has mass, it is full and solid. The ‘what is not’ is empty and void. Democritus is attempting to explain atoms by size, shape, order, and position of atoms. How Democritus theory is connected to his metaphysics is that the world is made up of tiny things and infantint thing but it does not change our perception of the real world. The danger of such a theory Democritus says, “ a person must know by this rule that he is separated from reality.” Human only know things by convention. This is not a pleasant idea because I do not know what is real or what my mind is telling is real.

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  23. Democritus’ ethical views promote moderation and happiness of the soul. He says “Accept nothing pleasant unless it is beneficial (29),” but he also says not to take pleasure in worldly things (31). These ethical views are connected with Democritus’ metaphysics because he says that everything has a reason but humans cannot necessarily know the reason. He says that our opinions are constantly reshaping (25). I think that Democritus is suggesting that reason is beyond human comprehension. On metaphysics, Democritus says that only the intelligible things are true (67). I guess this means that only atoms and the void are true. He stresses material beings, so this poses a problem because it seems to eliminate the gods.

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  24. Democritus believed that certain things must work together in order to better help us understand the world. Democritus thought that whatever happened in the world was a result of completely different things working together and moving forward as one. Democritus mentioned that there needs to be a balance of things such as pleasure and reason. One cannot have too much pleasure, without a little reason or vice versa. If one does have too much pleasure without reason, or reason without pleasure, it can lead to conflict within their lives. This reminds me of, in today's society, when really young people make the decision to get married. These people may get pleasure out of being with each other, but if too young may not be ready to get married. Thus reason is important in order for these people to approach marriage realistically. If these people only have pleasure and no reason, or vice versa it might lead them into a difficult situation.

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  25. The ethical doctrine of Democritus gives a response that change doesn’t come from nothing as Parmenides would argue that it did. In an atomist view the unchanging material are called atoms. There are two forces in reality and they are atoms and voids. Atoms are indivisible, with different shapes and sizes; the number of atoms is infinite. The void was the nothingness and state of nonexistence. If everything comes from something and not nothing then it is a result of reason.

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  26. Democritus believed that everything is made up of atoms. These atoms are close, but never fully connected, and because they are never fully connected, they can be disrupted fairly easily. Democritus says that if, for example, something is made up of AN, but then a disruption occurs and it's now NA, and even though it's the same letters it's not the same end result. So even if somethings seems like it's a good thing on the surface, like is AN and NA looked very similar, the underlining meaning is that not everything appears to be what it seems, and that the good is only a perception. Because good is only a perception, Democritus says to "Accept nothing pleasant unless it is beneficial," meaning that you almost can't learn from anything being just good, but that there has to be a bad something underneath it, in order to get it's true benefits.

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  27. Democritus believes that all things are resulted from a reason or necessity. Atoms are orginially motionless until their enviroment causes them to move by necessity. Demoritus makes the distingtion of "what is" and "what is not". Atoms can near each other but never touch because of "what is not" or the void.
    Democritus also believes that a person not accept anything that is pleasant unless it is necessary. The reason why is because he believes that taking pleasure in things that are short-lived will result in deppression, stress and pain. The key to live a happy life is to not attach oneself with those things.

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  28. Democritus believed that there are no absolutes. Atoms can not make a thing completely complete, good, or bad. Its this duality between good and bad that makes a thing whole and allows learning. He thought that things should not be considered pleasant unless necessary because it leads to an inevitable depression. What comes up must come down.

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  29. For Democritus, everything (including the 'nothing') exists and holds meaning, simply by existing. What's interesting about Democritus is that he gives meaning to the "what is not" like the existentialist doctor from I <3 Huckabees. That means every action (and inaction) is meaningful, and should be regarded with care. Democritus believes every action we make as humans need to be done in moderation, so as to ensure we appreciate every aspect and consequence of our decisions. Without this approach, we will act out of pleasure, instead of reason. Acting out of pure pleasure, like the example from the Bacchae, can lead to a person's destruction, and loss of their identity. But pleasure, in moderation combined with reason, we can have personal joy. (Joy, different from happiness, has meaning and depth, and we apply the joy to every aspect of our lives, long-term; happiness is short-term and shallow compared to a joy that will bring us through tribulations because its roots are so deep.)

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  30. Democritus believed in equality and "democracy", In fact, he believed that democracy in poverty was better than prosperity in a tyranny. Metaphysically Democritus argues that humans can't reason and are too often attracted to doing things pleasurably.

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  31. Democritus focuses on reason and the concept that the entire world is composed of atoms. These atoms can never be separated or disputed. No satisfaction can come to one person unless it is entirely necessary. He believes that pleasure in mortal things is foolish because they will one day be gone. By stating this, he believes that reason is behind our understanding. Pleasure and reason are two things that need to be balanced out.

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  32. Everything is made up of atoms which constantly moving, and because of that there is no absolute/definite reason. Reason is left to individual perspective which can more than likely be biased and based on individual truths, rather than the absolute truth.

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