For the next class I want you to be thinking about virtue in general. Is virtue analogous to wisdom? Can it be divided? Can you only possess a part of virtue? Is virtue a unified concept or must we always divide it into parts like temperance, courage and/or piety. Further, how are these parts related or unified. Finally, as Socrates questions and Protagoras hopes, is the virtue of courage distinct from all the other virtues? Must one be wise to be courageous?
Cheers,
Dr. Layne
I see virtue as encompassing a smaller area than wisdom. Virtue has Greek origins, tracing back to the word "arete," which means moral excellence.
ReplyDeleteVirtue is a divisible judgement on morality that must be applied to a quality in order to come into being. Courage and piety do not contain the essence of virtue until they are actively described as such though. Virtue, therefore, is not a single entity, neither is it tangible. Socrates (Plato) makes a convincing argument that specific qualities are indeed unified, as parts of gold, where there is no difference , except in size, between parts or between the parts and whole. But it is the philosopher who brings these things into being, unified by the act of classification, like the wild animals did not have power until Epimetheus assigned it.
I do not think that virtue and wisdom are analogous to one another. In order to grow in virtue, one must acquire wisdom. If you consider virtue as an overarching principle that contains various parts (such as kindness, patience, etc), I believe that one can be strong in some areas while having weaknesses in other areas. With regard to courage, it is not distinct from the other virtues. As one gains wisdom, one will grow in courage, as with the other virtues.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe virtue and wisdom to be analogous. In order to be virtuous, one must possess wisdom. This is so because in order to be virtuous one must have knowledge or wisdom on the just way to treat others and wisdom about values and morals. When someone encompasses this wisdom and acts accordingly to it, they then are virtuous. Therefore, in order to have virtue one must have wisdom. If you do not have wisdom you do not have virtue, however one can have wisdom and decide not to act accordingly to this wisdom making them un-virtuous. I do not believe one has to be wise to be courageous as one may do brave and courageous things without thinking them through and thinking of the consequences and possible repercussions.
ReplyDeleteIn many aspects, the idea of virtue is nearly a blanket term. It is an intangible concept that is perceived differently by all, which makes it hard to classify and distinctly define. My personal wordview, values, and perception will strongly influence what I define as virtuous. This can be compared to the Heraclitus parable, "Upon those who step into the same rivers,different and again different waters flow." With that being said, I see virtue as two separate qualities that are likely to be developed as a pair. With virtue comes wisdom, and with wisdom comes virtue. So in that sense, they function separately while working together, making it an analogous term.
ReplyDeleteI would not say that wisdom and virtue are the same but, they do seem to be related in the sense for there to be wisdom there must be virtue or vice-versa. Wisdom is achiving or having the knowledge to know what is truth, while virtue is the moral excellence that one lives by on daily bases. So in order for one to be living by the right principle or moral excellence, one must first have the knowledge to know what is right in order to live by the right principle. So in order to live by the right virtues one must have wisdom and in this way they are unified. As Socrates describes to Protagoras in regards to courage one must have some kind of wisdom to know that courage is good and cowardness bad.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kyle (above). I've tried processing the idea of these things being separate, but I believe one who is virtuous is wise and vise versa. “To give in to oneself is nothing other than ignorance, and to control oneself is nothing other than wisdom.”(line 358-c). It is possible for most people to control themselves at most times in their life, thus I think it virtue is possibly teachable.
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ReplyDeleteProtagoras claims that virtue is teachable and that justice, temperance, piety, wisdom, and courage collectively make up virtue. To him, virtue is a single entity and each of its’ parts are distinctively different. Ironically, Protagoras asserts that wisdom is the biggest part of all the other parts (163).
ReplyDeleteMy personal opinion is that virtue is distinct from wisdom, but wisdom is a part of virtue. Virtue is the totality of good qualities that make up man, but having one part without another does not yield virtue. For instance, if a person displays wisdom without piety, then they may be wise or pious, while still not virtuous. This is because virtue is the encompassing of several good qualities that are necessary for man to be exemplary to others. With this stated, virtue cannot be divided, but its parts may exist as independent entities.
Courage is the most peculiar of all the virtues mentioned by Protagoras. I would argue that it is distinct from all the other values. Justice, temperance, piety, and wisdom are all passive and agreeable traits, but courage is not. In order to possess justice, one must seek order, for temperance, one must possess patience, for piety, one must be wholesome, and for wisdom, one must be a good judge of what is true. To the contrary, courage challenges, asserts, defends, commands, and rejects, and one must not possess such developed characteristics as in the contrasted traits in order to possess it, which is why I think that it is distinct from other virtues, and that a person does not require wisdom to be courageous.
In summary, virtue is analogous to wisdom,just as courage is distinct from justice, temperance, piety, and wisdom.
Virtue and wisdom are not analogous because there different virtues, but only one wisdom. I do not think that you can possess only part of a virtue, but you can only show that you possess a virtue some of the time. The different types of virtue are separate but work together to help one achieve wisdom. Courage is its own virtue, and one need not be wise to be courageous. There is a kind of "blind courage" that no matter what level of knowledge, skill, or wisdom one has achieved, any one can access and display.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with Tonja when saying that you can't possess only part of a virtue. To me, virtue is the whole, it is getting a house and not a room. Therefore, to divide it means that you are in a state of incompleteness. I don't think one must be wise to be courageous. A lot of times it is in ignorant thinking that one acts wholeheartedly. Just think, if someone said standing up for your rights will get you killed before anyone ever took a stand. I believe that man people would have weighed out the consequences and walked away from the problem. But they didn't, blind hope and a passion for justice allowed them to prevail.
ReplyDeleteVirtue is partly related to wisdom because it takes wisdom to know how to understand ones virtues so they can better themselves. I don't think it can be divided because we need knowledge to better understand our virtues and to teach them to those who need it. When it comes to the virtue of courage it is not necessary to be wise to give the impression of knowing something. A person can act courageous or like they know something when they really don't. A wise person does not need to be courageous either. They can have knowledge but be scared to voice it.
ReplyDeleteIn order to have virtue one must have wisdom. Wisdom is realization and understanding and in order to be virtuous, one must be able to understand when one is being so. Virtue is a unified concept, but people have different views on what moral excellence actually is. One can be courageous without being wise, because a person may commit a courageous act without realizing the consequences or having an understanding of why they are actually being courageous.
ReplyDeleteVirtue is a loaded word, much like “nature.” It can mean a variety of things and each definition can be different from the other. Most words are like this, but I think words like “virtue” have an exaggerated vagueness about them. For instance, there is this sense of virtue being a quality of goodness, knowing the difference from right and wrong, and being able to function as a good citizen in society. When I think of virtue, I tend to divide it by gender. When I think of a woman being virtuous, I either think “oh, she’s such a sweetheart!” or “she wouldn’t hurt a fly.” It kind of relates back to Gilbert and Gubar’s Mad Woman in the Attic theory, heavily evoking this idea of an “Angel in the House,” passive, timid woman who can do no wrong. Otherwise, I think of nuns and saints and other religious sanctioned females. With males, the idea of virtue flips into something more possessive of morality; I think “he’s able to make good decisions!” or “he stands up for what he believes in.” I would argue that there is more of a sense of courage and wisdom attached to this idea of male virtue.
ReplyDeleteLike most words, “virtue” is going to have degrees of definition and subjective realization. To be virtuous at it’s basic is just to have an intrinsic value for life. This branches into more concrete terms, like “wisdom” and “piety” and “temperance.” Courage might be distinct from other virtues because anyone can possess courage; it does not require great skill. And it is also a universal trait that people must possess to live a fulfilled life full of other “virtuous” traits, like wisdom and temperance.
I believe that wisdom and virtue are two different things that certainly influence one another but that can survive independently of one another. Virtue, or the quality of doing what is right and avoiding what is wrong is, I believe a very basic understanding. The human person knows that certain things are wrong, for example, the taking of another human life, without needing any special explanation for it. Wisdom or, the trait of utilizing knowledge and experience with common sense and insight can definitely influence virtue, but wisdom is in the 'eye of the beholder'. We all experience different situations and knowledge.
ReplyDeleteI believe that virtue and wisdom are not the same but I do think they are related in a sense. In order to have virtue, wisdom must be acquired in order to develop a sense of what virtue is.
ReplyDeleteI think that virtues can be divided because humans have strength and weaknesses. Just because a person is courageous does not mean that they have temperance. Virtues are related though in a sense that courage, piety and temperance require mental strength and stability.
I think of virtue as a general term that encompasses a wide range of positive moral qualities. There is not one overarching Virtue that people must aspire to achieve. For instance, a virtue may be wisdom, piety, or patience. This makes the quest for virtue an ongoing process, which may never be completely achieved.
ReplyDeleteVirtue is ones ability to think and act beyond ones own needs and wants. It can be subdivided into virtues of patience and fortitude, but in reality these are all descriptions of one's ability to make decisions based on the reality of the world around them instead of simply minding to there own selfish desire. In that same line of thinking, courage is the ability to know when it is appropriate to stand up in the face of fear, rather than simply pretending it isn't there. Virtue is a single goal to strive for, not individual principals to chase.
ReplyDeleteVirtue means many different things to many different people but is generally found to be acquired through wisdom of what is right or wrong. Virtue and wisdom are both learned aspects of life that come with life experiences and time. Although often enough these go together, it is not always the case. For instance one could act in a courageous way before they were wise to the danger or consequences of their actions. Although this would be courageous it would not be wise.
ReplyDeleteI believe wisdom provides the basis for being virtuous. One can't be truly virtuous unless he or she knows exactly why virtue is important and also what the most important virtues are. In other words, I think that belief in the importance of virtue is a wise decision in itself, and therefore wisdom is a precursor to virtue.
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ReplyDeleteVirtue and wisdom are both closely related. If virtue is something teachable then it must have some type of knowledge related to wisdom. It can be divided because virtue is the idea of doing something right and avoiding what is wrong. Wisdom is a knowledge that is accumulated. Virtue is teachable because it is learned and you have to have the knowledge to understand the difference between wrong and right. The virtue of courage is different because it requires a great deal of strength because your knowledgeable of what right even if you have to do something wrong for whats right
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ReplyDeleteIn Protagoras, Socrates is initially doubtful of whether virtue can be taught (319a-320c) since Protagorist (?) relativism apparently threatens the kind of outlook and expertise necessary in order for the sophists to maintain their claim to be especially good teachers of virtue, but later Socrates argues that virtue can be taught (361a-c). Whereas, Protagoras' situation is reversed; he begins as an advocate of the teachability of virtue (considering it is his professed vocation) and concludes with skepticism towards the issue.
ReplyDeleteMore specifically,Socrates concludes that virtue is a general term, and the names of the individual virtues just mark the various forms in which it is manifested; however certain circumstances may call for specific designations with tribute to one particular virtue, such that, while all courageous acts may also be just, and the reverse, actions that inherently demonstrate courage can consciously be distinguished from actions that inherently demonstrate justice. This remark may suggest that Socrates identifies unity with inseparability, in that inseparability is in the very least one aspect of unity; though I may be wrong. Yet, even after thorough analysis of whether or not virtue can be taught, and whether or not it constitutes many subcategories, Socrates invites Protagoras to revisit the uncertainty of whether moderation,justice, piety, wisdom , and courage are all fragments of excellence/virtue, or whether they are distinct qualities.
Protagoras answers that all virtues are similar to each other, with the exception of courage. Socrates then reciprocates with the notion that in order to be good, fortitude must be integrated with knowledge, and courage must be linked with wisdom, thus these virtues must not be so different from one another. Socrates consummates that the real reason why people may behave in ways that are considered morally wrong is not due to their overwhelming desire for self-gratification, but rather their lack of knowledge of how to properly calculate the quantity of pleasure/pain in consequence to their actions. Therefore, this lack of knowledge describes a vice or evil. Hence,Socrates proclaims that if virtue (or excellence) is equivalent to knowledge, then it must be teachable and therefore able to be learned. Overall, Socrates argues to Protagoras that virtue is a process of becoming, and not a constant state to be achieved. Justice, wisdom, and compassion are virtues that humans must actively be in pursuit of, with great effort, versus something handed directly to them.
I adhere to the claim that, while each virtue may be divided into different branches, as a I propose that it is improbable for someone to only selectively possess SOME true genuine. The common ground that all virtue occupies is practical wisdom, in the sense that we refer to virtue with different names depending on the event. For instance if someone reuses someone from a dangerous situation, we label it courage, but if someone comforts another in time of suffering, we label it compassion/kindness or even empathy. This only reinforces that idea that virtue, in general, is the ability to interpret the type of action particular circumstances require, and in such we provide our virtuous aid.
Mary Mena
“ courage is endurance guided by knowledge of what inspires fear or confidence...”
I do not believe that wisdom and virtue are always related. If one is wise it doesn't make them virtuous. In order to obtain virtue one must be virtuous. I believe that with virtue one does obtain a certain amount of wisdom.
ReplyDeleteWith virtue, comes such traits as temperance, piety and courage. I do not believe that they are related. One can be courageous and not virtuous, as well as being virtuous without any courage. I do believe, however, that if one is virtuous, that they will develop some of theses character traits.
In my opinion, courage is one of the greatest virtues, next to wisdom. Courage is a virtue that causes us as human beings to make something of ourselves and to push our limitations. It also creates a sense of dying to oneself, which is the virtue humility, a high prize to withhold.
Courage does not always lead or derive from wisdom. One can be courageous and do something completely unwise. However, I do believe that with courage, wisdom will follow over time.